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	<title>Comments on: Adobe MAX scrimps on speaker expenses&#8230; again</title>
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	<description>Actionscript Games, Physics and Papervision3D</description>
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		<title>By: Seb Lee-Delisle &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New Adobe MAX controversy</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-660</link>
		<dc:creator>Seb Lee-Delisle &#187; Blog Archive &#187; New Adobe MAX controversy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-660</guid>
		<description>[...] about that time of year where a few of us Flash speakers get together and have a good old whinge about Adobe&#8217;s speaker expense policy. In fact it&#8217;s become somewhat of an annual [...]</description>
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<p>[...] about that time of year where a few of us Flash speakers get together and have a good old whinge about Adobe&#8217;s speaker expense policy. In fact it&#8217;s become somewhat of an annual [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Van den Eynde</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Van den Eynde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-655</guid>
		<description>Claus I completely agree (except for the fact that I will attend the conference). There&#039;s no free lunch when doing marketing. Marketing costs money. A lot of money. But of course most people attending Max are already customers so I guess the marketing budget for &#039;keeping existing customers&#039; is more or less 0 whereas the budget for &#039;getting new customers&#039; (for example through advertising on TV, magazines, ...) is a real marketing budget. I really hope things will improve by just doing 1 TV commercial less...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Claus I completely agree (except for the fact that I will attend the conference). There&#8217;s no free lunch when doing marketing. Marketing costs money. A lot of money. But of course most people attending Max are already customers so I guess the marketing budget for &#8216;keeping existing customers&#8217; is more or less 0 whereas the budget for &#8216;getting new customers&#8217; (for example through advertising on TV, magazines, &#8230;) is a real marketing budget. I really hope things will improve by just doing 1 TV commercial less&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Claus Wahlers</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-654</link>
		<dc:creator>Claus Wahlers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-654</guid>
		<description>For me, personally, it&#039;s very simple: As long as Adobe tries to make MAX profitable by not paying expenses for speakers, i won&#039;t even attend this conference, let alone considering speaking there. A billion dollar company can&#039;t pay speaker expenses for a conference that, at its core, promotes that company&#039;s products? That&#039;s not only ridiculous, that&#039;s outrageous. Paying certain speakers and not paying others is *beyond* outrageous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, personally, it&#8217;s very simple: As long as Adobe tries to make MAX profitable by not paying expenses for speakers, i won&#8217;t even attend this conference, let alone considering speaking there. A billion dollar company can&#8217;t pay speaker expenses for a conference that, at its core, promotes that company&#8217;s products? That&#8217;s not only ridiculous, that&#8217;s outrageous. Paying certain speakers and not paying others is *beyond* outrageous.</p>
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		<title>By: John Wilker</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-657</link>
		<dc:creator>John Wilker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-657</guid>
		<description>My .01 (damn economy)

I think the biggest problem was paying for some  and not others, then not paying for anyone. Paying for speakers full expenses is expensive. and hard to do. There&#039;s no if ands or buts about it. I heard about the Inspire &#039;thing&#039; a while back and new it would end badly.  As is (again it seems) the case.

Short of a blanket stipend, there&#039;s no fair solution. Even an event like MAX would need a small team to make or pay for individual travel arrangements. Tom and I know we can&#039;t, we thought about it. A blanket stipend is uneven. The guy that lives in SF gets nothing, while the guy from Egypt get&#039;s a nice big check? Hotels is orders of magnitude easier, and the cost is the same for every speaker. Strictly speaking it&#039;s the fairest approach, IMO.

I know exactly what Tom and I spent just on hotel rooms for 40+ speakers (and believe me, it wasn&#039;t 4 star at all), and can&#039;t imagine us being able to support airfare too. We&#039;re definitely for profit, though not getting rich profit, LOL, and even then we couldn&#039;t swing it.

(disclaimer: &#039;you&#039; is the global you, not you seb personaly, LOL)

My personal opinion, is this; if you wanna speak, speak. I feel its giving back to the community, and it certainly doesn&#039;t hurt the career either, so there&#039;s lots of &#039;soft&#039; benefits to speaking at a conference.  Yes you&#039;re not billable, but you&#039;re not exactly sitting around. You&#039;re networking, meeting potential new clients, making new/stronger connections inside Adobe, etc. There&#039;s a business value to that.

If you&#039;re not interested, as much as it&#039;s a bummer, that&#039;s how it is. My only advice to Adobe is make peace with not having certain people at the event. IMO, it&#039;s their loss, not the communities. It really just comes down to what&#039;s more important to you.

Like I said, my .02 on this never ending issue, :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My .01 (damn economy)</p>
<p>I think the biggest problem was paying for some  and not others, then not paying for anyone. Paying for speakers full expenses is expensive. and hard to do. There&#8217;s no if ands or buts about it. I heard about the Inspire &#8216;thing&#8217; a while back and new it would end badly.  As is (again it seems) the case.</p>
<p>Short of a blanket stipend, there&#8217;s no fair solution. Even an event like MAX would need a small team to make or pay for individual travel arrangements. Tom and I know we can&#8217;t, we thought about it. A blanket stipend is uneven. The guy that lives in SF gets nothing, while the guy from Egypt get&#8217;s a nice big check? Hotels is orders of magnitude easier, and the cost is the same for every speaker. Strictly speaking it&#8217;s the fairest approach, IMO.</p>
<p>I know exactly what Tom and I spent just on hotel rooms for 40+ speakers (and believe me, it wasn&#8217;t 4 star at all), and can&#8217;t imagine us being able to support airfare too. We&#8217;re definitely for profit, though not getting rich profit, LOL, and even then we couldn&#8217;t swing it.</p>
<p>(disclaimer: &#8216;you&#8217; is the global you, not you seb personaly, LOL)</p>
<p>My personal opinion, is this; if you wanna speak, speak. I feel its giving back to the community, and it certainly doesn&#8217;t hurt the career either, so there&#8217;s lots of &#8216;soft&#8217; benefits to speaking at a conference.  Yes you&#8217;re not billable, but you&#8217;re not exactly sitting around. You&#8217;re networking, meeting potential new clients, making new/stronger connections inside Adobe, etc. There&#8217;s a business value to that.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re not interested, as much as it&#8217;s a bummer, that&#8217;s how it is. My only advice to Adobe is make peace with not having certain people at the event. IMO, it&#8217;s their loss, not the communities. It really just comes down to what&#8217;s more important to you.</p>
<p>Like I said, my .02 on this never ending issue, <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kerman</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-658</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-658</guid>
		<description>Let me add a couple points:
--MAX isn&#039;t the worst... take SXSW.  I found it a fun party but a total rip as a speaker.
--MAX is a great conference to attend.  I spoke at every Macromedia UCON/DevCon/MAX from 1996-2003.. but then in 2004 I only attended... and it was a much better experience.
--I&#039;ve paid my way to every MAX I didn&#039;t speak except for 2008 (because I made those videos in exchange).
--Ted is on our side... but, really, this is just about the shortsighted attitude of someone inside MAX... maybe that person to stand up... pay their own way to MAX and I&#039;ll buy them a beer to try, one last time, to help them see how they&#039;re missing an opportunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me add a couple points:<br />
&#8211;MAX isn&#8217;t the worst&#8230; take SXSW.  I found it a fun party but a total rip as a speaker.<br />
&#8211;MAX is a great conference to attend.  I spoke at every Macromedia UCON/DevCon/MAX from 1996-2003.. but then in 2004 I only attended&#8230; and it was a much better experience.<br />
&#8211;I&#8217;ve paid my way to every MAX I didn&#8217;t speak except for 2008 (because I made those videos in exchange).<br />
&#8211;Ted is on our side&#8230; but, really, this is just about the shortsighted attitude of someone inside MAX&#8230; maybe that person to stand up&#8230; pay their own way to MAX and I&#8217;ll buy them a beer to try, one last time, to help them see how they&#8217;re missing an opportunity.</p>
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		<title>By: seb</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-653</link>
		<dc:creator>seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-653</guid>
		<description>@Phillip Kerman that is a bloody good point actually!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Phillip Kerman that is a bloody good point actually!</p>
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		<title>By: seb</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-652</guid>
		<description>Hi Ted,

thanks for the clarification, and I&#039;m honestly sorry to be making a fuss about this one. I actually hate how I sound LOL.

I appreciate that you can&#039;t pay my travel expenses without also paying for the other speakers&#039; travel. But to be honest I don&#039;t want to be some elite &quot;inspire&quot; speaker that gets greater benefits than others! I want all speakers to at least have their expenses covered so they&#039;re not paying to speak.

The conference pass is a benefit? That&#039;s just insane. Would you consider inviting a speaker and then not give them a pass to the conference?

And the other benefits? A hotel : well I wouldn&#039;t expect to have to sleep rough!

A free gift? Well to be honest I have no idea what this is. If it&#039;s a copy of CS4 Master Collection then I&#039;ll happily pay the air fare, and this argument is closed :-)

Greater coverage? I pride myself on the fact that I share code and reveal all the things I&#039;ve learnt. In fact most people don&#039;t realise that I&#039;m actually a company Director at Plug-in Media, because my presentations are never a sales pitch.

I&#039;m sure I could justify covering my own fares and hotel fees if I did give an hour&#039;s pitch selling my company&#039;s work. But I feel that the audience wouldn&#039;t enjoy it so much. Surely it&#039;s better to gloss over that stuff and spend the time showing how to make a particle system or get started with Papervision?

I feel like your whole model here is aimed at people who need the coverage. And I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s necessarily the best speakers. Or perhaps it&#039;s just different, like Peter says.

And I&#039;m honestly pleased that you asked me - I love presenting and sharing the things I&#039;ve learnt. Is the free gift worth more than the airfare? Is it something I would want? I think that&#039;s the only way I can make this one work at this stage :-)

cheers

Seb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ted,</p>
<p>thanks for the clarification, and I&#8217;m honestly sorry to be making a fuss about this one. I actually hate how I sound LOL.</p>
<p>I appreciate that you can&#8217;t pay my travel expenses without also paying for the other speakers&#8217; travel. But to be honest I don&#8217;t want to be some elite &#8220;inspire&#8221; speaker that gets greater benefits than others! I want all speakers to at least have their expenses covered so they&#8217;re not paying to speak.</p>
<p>The conference pass is a benefit? That&#8217;s just insane. Would you consider inviting a speaker and then not give them a pass to the conference?</p>
<p>And the other benefits? A hotel : well I wouldn&#8217;t expect to have to sleep rough!</p>
<p>A free gift? Well to be honest I have no idea what this is. If it&#8217;s a copy of CS4 Master Collection then I&#8217;ll happily pay the air fare, and this argument is closed <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Greater coverage? I pride myself on the fact that I share code and reveal all the things I&#8217;ve learnt. In fact most people don&#8217;t realise that I&#8217;m actually a company Director at Plug-in Media, because my presentations are never a sales pitch.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure I could justify covering my own fares and hotel fees if I did give an hour&#8217;s pitch selling my company&#8217;s work. But I feel that the audience wouldn&#8217;t enjoy it so much. Surely it&#8217;s better to gloss over that stuff and spend the time showing how to make a particle system or get started with Papervision?</p>
<p>I feel like your whole model here is aimed at people who need the coverage. And I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s necessarily the best speakers. Or perhaps it&#8217;s just different, like Peter says.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m honestly pleased that you asked me &#8211; I love presenting and sharing the things I&#8217;ve learnt. Is the free gift worth more than the airfare? Is it something I would want? I think that&#8217;s the only way I can make this one work at this stage <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>cheers</p>
<p>Seb</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kerman</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-651</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-651</guid>
		<description>Peter... reading your email about all these great compromises makes me wonder if we&#039;re talking about some kind of charity event or a private, for-profit, conference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter&#8230; reading your email about all these great compromises makes me wonder if we&#8217;re talking about some kind of charity event or a private, for-profit, conference.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kerman</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-650</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-650</guid>
		<description>Ted, it&#039;s weird complaining to you because you&#039;re &quot;one of the good ones&quot;... however, with respect to your wish to make things consistent--I think that&#039;s great.  However, why don&#039;t you start with not paying expenses for SOME speakers and not others!?  Ah, but I did read your message.  What you (Adobe) don&#039;t seem to understand is that you ARE paying for some speaker&#039;s travel expenses!  Aren&#039;t you?  Aren&#039;t you paying for Adobe employee speakers travel?  So, there you have it--pay for everyone&#039;s expenses and people won&#039;t complain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, it&#8217;s weird complaining to you because you&#8217;re &#8220;one of the good ones&#8221;&#8230; however, with respect to your wish to make things consistent&#8211;I think that&#8217;s great.  However, why don&#8217;t you start with not paying expenses for SOME speakers and not others!?  Ah, but I did read your message.  What you (Adobe) don&#8217;t seem to understand is that you ARE paying for some speaker&#8217;s travel expenses!  Aren&#8217;t you?  Aren&#8217;t you paying for Adobe employee speakers travel?  So, there you have it&#8211;pay for everyone&#8217;s expenses and people won&#8217;t complain.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Elst</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/09/adobe-max-scrimps-on-speaker-expenses-again/comment-page-1/#comment-649</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Elst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=229#comment-649</guid>
		<description>With all due respect Ted, I think covering expenses last year was less about helping those speakers traveling a great distance than it was getting some well-known community members that were very vocal about not speaking at MAX because of the speaker compensation situation.

Remember hearing that the issue was being looked at and things would improve for the next edition. Seems to me like a missed opportunity.

I personally was happy to do the US and Europe last year and agreed to speak before other &#039;inspire speakers&#039; were offered their expenses paid. From what I gather many of the inspire speakers were not aware that others would not get their travel covered and vice versa.

While I completely understand wanting to keep the policy consistent this year, why not have fewer non-adobe speakers and pay for their expenses? Have the community vote on who they would like to see.

Alternatively if you just offer a fixed amount to all speakers they can choose how to spend it. While its nice to get hotel accommodation covered, some might prefer spending money on their flight and not necessarily want a four star hotel.

- Peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect Ted, I think covering expenses last year was less about helping those speakers traveling a great distance than it was getting some well-known community members that were very vocal about not speaking at MAX because of the speaker compensation situation.</p>
<p>Remember hearing that the issue was being looked at and things would improve for the next edition. Seems to me like a missed opportunity.</p>
<p>I personally was happy to do the US and Europe last year and agreed to speak before other &#8216;inspire speakers&#8217; were offered their expenses paid. From what I gather many of the inspire speakers were not aware that others would not get their travel covered and vice versa.</p>
<p>While I completely understand wanting to keep the policy consistent this year, why not have fewer non-adobe speakers and pay for their expenses? Have the community vote on who they would like to see.</p>
<p>Alternatively if you just offer a fixed amount to all speakers they can choose how to spend it. While its nice to get hotel accommodation covered, some might prefer spending money on their flight and not necessarily want a four star hotel.</p>
<p>- Peter</p>
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