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	<title>Comments on: Adobe MAX speaker expenses &#8211; still no joy</title>
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	<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/</link>
	<description>Actionscript Games, Physics and Papervision3D</description>
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		<title>By: seb</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-696</link>
		<dc:creator>seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 17:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-696</guid>
		<description>@Dan Wilson Thanks for your frankness Dan, I honestly appreciate knowing how you and others feel.

I do hope that I contribute to the community, I certainly try to. I put in a hell of a lot of time into the Flash community, I run the local user group &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flashbrighton.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FlashBrighton&lt;/a&gt; with weekly meetings and the free events such as the &lt;a href=&quot;http://fbbigdayout.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Big Day Out&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://http://www.flashbrighton.org/wordpress/?p=135&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Flash Film nights&lt;/a&gt;.

I also speak (and pay my own way for) other user groups, universities and colleges, and genuine community conferences. I don&#039;t really see MAX as a community event because it&#039;s expensive and it is (to a greater or lesser extent) promoting Adobe software. And I don&#039;t know which conferences you speak at that don&#039;t cover your expenses but every other conference I have spoken at has covered mine. As any &quot;professional&quot; conference should.

I actually do love sharing my knowledge and experience and I love teaching and presenting my work. I hope that comes across here on my blog, although I appreciate that I haven&#039;t offered anything that useful for a while, mostly because I&#039;m working so hard on a big project for the BBC. Although a big part of that work is Papervision3D development which will be integrated back into the library for the community to use.

And I am flattered that I was asked to speak, I just don&#039;t think I should pay for the privilege that&#039;s all. If you are prepared to pay for the privilege then that&#039;s fine by me.

As for being petty? That&#039;s what anyone who is standing up for their principles looks like to people who disagree with the principles in question. :-)

@Rachel Lehman That&#039;s an interesting argument, and like Phillip, I also respectfully disagree :-).

Isn&#039;t that the wrong way around? Surely you should be choosing the best speakers on their merit, not just taking ones who are willing to pay for the privilege? Call me a premadonna but I thought it was a little insulting that Adobe offered a &quot;free conference pass&quot; as one of the speaker benefits. Anyone who&#039;s ever spoken at a conference knows that it&#039;s a very different experience attending a conference as a speaker compared with being a delegate. Especially if (as Phillip says) you have to present 5 times!

And I personally don&#039;t know any high profile speakers that speak only to get access to the conferences.

@John Wilker I have a feeling that they may be giving CS4 to every speaker. But there we go. Let&#039;s wait and see. But in the past the speaker free gifts have been a little stingier :-)

For now, I&#039;m going to put this one behind me. You all know where I stand. Lots of you agree with me (thank you) and some of you disagree (thank you also :-) ). In the meantime I&#039;m going to try to stop worrying about it and get on with writing blog posts that hopefully will be of some actual use to you all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dan Wilson Thanks for your frankness Dan, I honestly appreciate knowing how you and others feel.</p>
<p>I do hope that I contribute to the community, I certainly try to. I put in a hell of a lot of time into the Flash community, I run the local user group <a href="http://www.flashbrighton.org" rel="nofollow">FlashBrighton</a> with weekly meetings and the free events such as the <a href="http://fbbigdayout.org" rel="nofollow">Big Day Out</a> and <a href="http://http://www.flashbrighton.org/wordpress/?p=135" rel="nofollow">Flash Film nights</a>.</p>
<p>I also speak (and pay my own way for) other user groups, universities and colleges, and genuine community conferences. I don&#8217;t really see MAX as a community event because it&#8217;s expensive and it is (to a greater or lesser extent) promoting Adobe software. And I don&#8217;t know which conferences you speak at that don&#8217;t cover your expenses but every other conference I have spoken at has covered mine. As any &#8220;professional&#8221; conference should.</p>
<p>I actually do love sharing my knowledge and experience and I love teaching and presenting my work. I hope that comes across here on my blog, although I appreciate that I haven&#8217;t offered anything that useful for a while, mostly because I&#8217;m working so hard on a big project for the BBC. Although a big part of that work is Papervision3D development which will be integrated back into the library for the community to use.</p>
<p>And I am flattered that I was asked to speak, I just don&#8217;t think I should pay for the privilege that&#8217;s all. If you are prepared to pay for the privilege then that&#8217;s fine by me.</p>
<p>As for being petty? That&#8217;s what anyone who is standing up for their principles looks like to people who disagree with the principles in question. <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Rachel Lehman That&#8217;s an interesting argument, and like Phillip, I also respectfully disagree <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that the wrong way around? Surely you should be choosing the best speakers on their merit, not just taking ones who are willing to pay for the privilege? Call me a premadonna but I thought it was a little insulting that Adobe offered a &#8220;free conference pass&#8221; as one of the speaker benefits. Anyone who&#8217;s ever spoken at a conference knows that it&#8217;s a very different experience attending a conference as a speaker compared with being a delegate. Especially if (as Phillip says) you have to present 5 times!</p>
<p>And I personally don&#8217;t know any high profile speakers that speak only to get access to the conferences.</p>
<p>@John Wilker I have a feeling that they may be giving CS4 to every speaker. But there we go. Let&#8217;s wait and see. But in the past the speaker free gifts have been a little stingier <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>For now, I&#8217;m going to put this one behind me. You all know where I stand. Lots of you agree with me (thank you) and some of you disagree (thank you also <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ). In the meantime I&#8217;m going to try to stop worrying about it and get on with writing blog posts that hopefully will be of some actual use to you all!</p>
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		<title>By: John Wilker</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>John Wilker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-699</guid>
		<description>I wonder who the speaker being paid for is? I have an idea but who knows. I agree with (and said last time) Rachel, covering expense is hard, on a MAX scale I can&#039;t even fathom. I do think Adobe could more than make up for not covering... CS4 for every speaker? That&#039;s a soft cost, so easier to do. Plenty of things (I feel) can make up for it. Like not making speakers speak on a topic of Adobe&#039;s choosing or sanitization.

I&#039;ll be at MAX, I&#039;ve been to many, but calling it a community event, is a bit of a stretch, sorta like calling Los Angeles a bedroom community. 5k people in one place, does not a community make, IMO of course.

YMMV</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder who the speaker being paid for is? I have an idea but who knows. I agree with (and said last time) Rachel, covering expense is hard, on a MAX scale I can&#8217;t even fathom. I do think Adobe could more than make up for not covering&#8230; CS4 for every speaker? That&#8217;s a soft cost, so easier to do. Plenty of things (I feel) can make up for it. Like not making speakers speak on a topic of Adobe&#8217;s choosing or sanitization.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be at MAX, I&#8217;ve been to many, but calling it a community event, is a bit of a stretch, sorta like calling Los Angeles a bedroom community. 5k people in one place, does not a community make, IMO of course.</p>
<p>YMMV</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kerman</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-698</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-698</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s obvious I (respectfully) disagree.  But I believe that 0% of the speakers speaking were selected based on the proposal process.  I could be wrong but I&#039;m pretty sure my figure is right or extremely close.

Personally, I have a range of rules I apply to whether I accept a speaking gig.  It&#039;s not the same for every conference.  Though, honestly, the reason I&#039;d be wary of speaking at MAX (and, I wasn&#039;t asked this year) is that the speakers have to give their session up to 5 times!  The last time I was asked to speak I got in trouble because I ended one of my 90minute workshops early in order for everyone (including myself) to attend the &quot;sneak peeks&quot;.

To call MAX a &quot;community&quot; event might be overlooking the fact it&#039;s completely controlled by a large corporation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s obvious I (respectfully) disagree.  But I believe that 0% of the speakers speaking were selected based on the proposal process.  I could be wrong but I&#8217;m pretty sure my figure is right or extremely close.</p>
<p>Personally, I have a range of rules I apply to whether I accept a speaking gig.  It&#8217;s not the same for every conference.  Though, honestly, the reason I&#8217;d be wary of speaking at MAX (and, I wasn&#8217;t asked this year) is that the speakers have to give their session up to 5 times!  The last time I was asked to speak I got in trouble because I ended one of my 90minute workshops early in order for everyone (including myself) to attend the &#8220;sneak peeks&#8221;.</p>
<p>To call MAX a &#8220;community&#8221; event might be overlooking the fact it&#8217;s completely controlled by a large corporation.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Lehman</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-697</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Lehman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-697</guid>
		<description>Paying for speaker travel expenses is really costly for any conference, and for the number of speakers that show up to Max, it would be a huge additional cost that would ultimately get passed on to the attendees. Max, while not &quot;non-profit&quot;, is not done for the income, Adobe puts it on for their community. The profit, if any, that they get from it is small.

I think that while conferences should comp hotel rooms and meals for speakers (it&#039;s only fair), not paying their travel expenses ensures that the speakers have some skin in the game so to say, and results in higher quality speakers and content. Otherwise it&#039;s basically offering a free trip to (insert destination here) for anyone with a topic abstract that sounds interesting!

At a lot of these conferences, speakers speak to get free tickets to the event, which, if you&#039;re interested in sessions, is a big plus and for some it&#039;s enough incentive to get them to pay their own way. If you&#039;re not at all interested in attending, then I totally understand the decision not to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paying for speaker travel expenses is really costly for any conference, and for the number of speakers that show up to Max, it would be a huge additional cost that would ultimately get passed on to the attendees. Max, while not &#8220;non-profit&#8221;, is not done for the income, Adobe puts it on for their community. The profit, if any, that they get from it is small.</p>
<p>I think that while conferences should comp hotel rooms and meals for speakers (it&#8217;s only fair), not paying their travel expenses ensures that the speakers have some skin in the game so to say, and results in higher quality speakers and content. Otherwise it&#8217;s basically offering a free trip to (insert destination here) for anyone with a topic abstract that sounds interesting!</p>
<p>At a lot of these conferences, speakers speak to get free tickets to the event, which, if you&#8217;re interested in sessions, is a big plus and for some it&#8217;s enough incentive to get them to pay their own way. If you&#8217;re not at all interested in attending, then I totally understand the decision not to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Wilson</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-701</guid>
		<description>Sorry Bro, I think you are off base with this one.  Max is a community conference and being asked to speak at Max is a community honour. I gladly pay for my own travel/expenses to attend the various conferences I am invited to speak at.

Some conferences offer a free hotel, which I am grateful for, some do not. Regardless, I appreciate the privilege of being invited to share my knowledge with my peers.

I put in my talk for Max:Milan a little too late this year. Were it to have been accepted, I would happily be paying for flights across the Atlantic.

From where I sit, this continual &#039;fight&#039; about having 100% of speaker expenses taken care of by Adobe is a little petty. If you are the sort of person who likes to share their knowledge and to present to your peers on topics of interest, then the expenses aren&#039;t such a big deal.

You are welcome to your opinion, of course.

Dan Wilson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Bro, I think you are off base with this one.  Max is a community conference and being asked to speak at Max is a community honour. I gladly pay for my own travel/expenses to attend the various conferences I am invited to speak at.</p>
<p>Some conferences offer a free hotel, which I am grateful for, some do not. Regardless, I appreciate the privilege of being invited to share my knowledge with my peers.</p>
<p>I put in my talk for Max:Milan a little too late this year. Were it to have been accepted, I would happily be paying for flights across the Atlantic.</p>
<p>From where I sit, this continual &#8216;fight&#8217; about having 100% of speaker expenses taken care of by Adobe is a little petty. If you are the sort of person who likes to share their knowledge and to present to your peers on topics of interest, then the expenses aren&#8217;t such a big deal.</p>
<p>You are welcome to your opinion, of course.</p>
<p>Dan Wilson</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kerman</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 16:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-700</guid>
		<description>I understand all (even non-Adobe employees) are getting their hotel paid for-just not anything else including airfare.  Anyway, I disagree that it&#039;s not a good conference.  In fact, if it sucked I&#039;d just not go and probably not even complain about this issue.  But the reason I&#039;m invested is that I think it&#039;s a great conference.  Sometimes contradicts the expectation... but it is good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand all (even non-Adobe employees) are getting their hotel paid for-just not anything else including airfare.  Anyway, I disagree that it&#8217;s not a good conference.  In fact, if it sucked I&#8217;d just not go and probably not even complain about this issue.  But the reason I&#8217;m invested is that I think it&#8217;s a great conference.  Sometimes contradicts the expectation&#8230; but it is good.</p>
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		<title>By: seb</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-703</link>
		<dc:creator>seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-703</guid>
		<description>LOL Stu, yeah good point, actually people have pointed out that it&#039;s actually the same price to fly to New York, buy CS4 there, and then fly home again! But don&#039;t get me started on that one again... ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL Stu, yeah good point, actually people have pointed out that it&#8217;s actually the same price to fly to New York, buy CS4 there, and then fly home again! But don&#8217;t get me started on that one again&#8230; <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-702</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-702</guid>
		<description>Maybe if I buy a copy of CS4, they can make up the cost of your flight with the 200% profit they&#039;re making on the US prices ;)

I don&#039;t blame you for not wanting to take the gamble...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe if I buy a copy of CS4, they can make up the cost of your flight with the 200% profit they&#8217;re making on the US prices <img src='http://sebleedelisle.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t blame you for not wanting to take the gamble&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: seb</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>seb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-704</guid>
		<description>Hi Phillip, yes I know I&#039;m sorry, but surely life&#039;s too short to try to help a poor little multi-billion dollar corporation to help itself out? LOL

Just to be clear, there&#039;s at least one non-adobe employee having their expenses paid. But you&#039;re right, in fact I&#039;m sure that the whole reason that MAX is so &quot;unprofitable&quot; is that they have to fly all of their employees to the conference! (not just the speakers).

And yes I&#039;m tired of this fight. I&#039;m not in a hurry to go to MAX, and reports from my friends have been lacklustre about it as a conference. Maybe next year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Phillip, yes I know I&#8217;m sorry, but surely life&#8217;s too short to try to help a poor little multi-billion dollar corporation to help itself out? LOL</p>
<p>Just to be clear, there&#8217;s at least one non-adobe employee having their expenses paid. But you&#8217;re right, in fact I&#8217;m sure that the whole reason that MAX is so &#8220;unprofitable&#8221; is that they have to fly all of their employees to the conference! (not just the speakers).</p>
<p>And yes I&#8217;m tired of this fight. I&#8217;m not in a hurry to go to MAX, and reports from my friends have been lacklustre about it as a conference. Maybe next year!</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip Kerman</title>
		<link>http://sebleedelisle.com/2008/10/adobe-max-speaker-fees-still-no-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-705</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip Kerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sebleedelisle.com/?p=266#comment-705</guid>
		<description>Tired of this fight? Never.  Paying for at least one speaker&#039;s flight?  No duh... make that 100% of the speakers from Adobe (that aren&#039;t already living in the area).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tired of this fight? Never.  Paying for at least one speaker&#8217;s flight?  No duh&#8230; make that 100% of the speakers from Adobe (that aren&#8217;t already living in the area).</p>
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